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Atlanta Thrashers -> Zhitnik
 
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  Rasp
 
March 8, 2008 1:00:23 pm
 
  Floppy

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Member Since: December, 2001
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quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
wrong again...that's stupidity.



Feel free to jump in and set me straight if you feel I've missed anything.

 
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  dunwoody_joe
 
March 11, 2008 7:00:50 am
 
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quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
wrong again...that's stupidity.



Feel free to jump in and set me straight if you feel I've missed anything.



http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/thrashers/stories/2008/03/10/thrashers_0311.html

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2008/03/10/keeping_waddell.html

 
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  3putt
 
March 11, 2008 10:23:45 am
 
  2nd Line Scorer

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quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
wrong again...that's stupidity.



Feel free to jump in and set me straight if you feel I've missed anything.



http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/thrashers/stories/2008/03/10/thrashers_0311.html

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2008/03/10/keeping_waddell.html



Well, I am not an NHL defenceman, but let me see if I got this straight. Because DW played Zhitnik less than 24 minutes, Zhitnik's body slows down and can not play as good.

 
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  Rasp
 
March 11, 2008 11:08:10 am
 
  Floppy

Location: In Mombassa, drinking gin.
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quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
wrong again...that's stupidity.



Feel free to jump in and set me straight if you feel I've missed anything.



http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/thrashers/stories/2008/03/10/thrashers_0311.html

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2008/03/10/keeping_waddell.html



Seriously? An article about Zhitnik and DW not getting along and 300 words from Jeff Shultz who knows less about hickey than Dolly Madison did; and both 2 days later? That's how you respond to my comments about Coburns development? C'mon I know you're better than that.

 
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  CheapSeats
 
March 11, 2008 11:12:10 am
 
  Miss Stake

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Interesting comments after that Schultz article. Lots of fire DW sentiment, a few excusing him complete and blaming the owners.

Trying to put 100% of the blame on the GM is asinine, but I shouldn't expect more of Schultz.

One thing that stuck out was the claim that a member of the coaching staff threw the team under the bus over money - the claim by the same guy that that the polish sausages upstairs are known to cause intestinal bleeding makes me think there may be some truth to that.

 
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  dunwoody_joe
 
March 11, 2008 2:01:28 pm
 
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quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
wrong again...that's stupidity.



Feel free to jump in and set me straight if you feel I've missed anything.



http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/thrashers/stories/2008/03/10/thrashers_0311.html

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2008/03/10/keeping_waddell.html



Seriously? An article about Zhitnik and DW not getting along and 300 words from Jeff Shultz who knows less about hickey than Dolly Madison did; and both 2 days later? That's how you respond to my comments about Coburns development? C'mon I know you're better than that.



So obvious even the AJC is starting to catch a wiff.

..and I know you already know the answers...don't need any referesher from me. On the other hand, search out all my previous posts and review. It's all right there.

 
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  Rasp
 
March 11, 2008 3:34:47 pm
 
  Floppy

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quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
So obvious even the AJC is starting to catch a wiff.

..and I know you already know the answers...don't need any referesher from me. On the other hand, search out all my previous posts and review. It's all right there.



So, nothing about Coburn then. Thanks for playing. Next time I need something out of context I'll let you know.

 
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  dunwoody_joe
 
March 11, 2008 7:29:29 pm
 
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quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...
So obvious even the AJC is starting to catch a wiff.

..and I know you already know the answers...don't need any referesher from me. On the other hand, search out all my previous posts and review. It's all right there.



So, nothing about Coburn then. Thanks for playing. Next time I need something out of context I'll let you know.



No time to educate you son. Plenty for you to read up on...call it independent study.

 
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  redTHRASH
 
March 11, 2008 9:28:52 pm
 
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Buffalo needs a veteran defenseman because Spacek and Kalinen are out I think for the rest of the season. Zhit would be perfect for them and they would only have to pay half his salary.
 
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  Rasp
 
March 12, 2008 10:38:23 am
 
  Floppy

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quote:
dunwoody_joe said...

No time to educate you son. Plenty for you to read up on...call it independent study.



C'mon pops... No time? You waited 2 days for someone else to write something only tangentially related in the AJC.

 
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  clambake
 
March 12, 2008 11:41:03 am
 
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quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...

...when your GM panics. Our developmental system sucks--maybe that's why Coburn's progress seemed to arrest.




How do you figure? Because Coburn spent ZERO time "developing" in the Philadelphia system. He was traded and has played for the big club ever since. So any development was obviously already complete. I don't suppose that rumors of an attitude problem could've had any truth to them?



You two do a really shitty job of having a pissing contest.

DW did in fact panic last year. He saw his 'Five Year Plan' slipping away once again. But I think he also felt that he was giving up little in all of his trades. It looks like he may have been right with Bourret/DuPuis, but we don't have DuPuis anymore either. St. Louis robbed us last year too. Frankly, Zhitnik/Coburn looked like a decent deal too, especially considering that he wasn't going to be a rent-a-player.

I think the problem isn't so much development as evaluation. There have been significant misses in the early rounds of the draft. And then, those players struggle in the minors for either lack of skill or 'character' issues. Then, the mis-evaluation seems to continue in various directions - Stefan as a #1, when he wouldn't even let you see his medical records(!); Slater & Kari are deemed ready, when they really aren't; Coburn is thought to be not ready, when he was close enough to hold on to. And if there truly was an attitude problem with Coburn, that is also an evaluation issue, much as the work ethic and physical fitness of Lehtonen, when he came out.

 
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  GordieHoweHat-trick
 
March 12, 2008 12:02:15 pm
 
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quote:
clambake said...I think the problem isn't so much development as evaluation.


It's interesting that the best rookie on this team came out of Sweeden, not Chicago.

TSN did an article a little while back on the difference between teams that are affiliated with AHL teams and those that own their minor league teams. Not surprisingly, the teams that own their minor league system are better at developing talent.

There really isn't any incentive for Chicago to be developing players for the Atlanta system and they don't seem to be doing it. Perhaps the Thrashers should look to a new affiliation.


 
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  Rasp
 
March 12, 2008 12:13:12 pm
 
  Floppy

Location: In Mombassa, drinking gin.
Member Since: December, 2001
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
clambake said...
quote:
Rasp said...
quote:
dunwoody_joe said...

...when your GM panics. Our developmental system sucks--maybe that's why Coburn's progress seemed to arrest.




How do you figure? Because Coburn spent ZERO time "developing" in the Philadelphia system. He was traded and has played for the big club ever since. So any development was obviously already complete. I don't suppose that rumors of an attitude problem could've had any truth to them?



You two do a really shitty job of having a pissing contest.

DW did in fact panic last year. He saw his 'Five Year Plan' slipping away once again. But I think he also felt that he was giving up little in all of his trades. It looks like he may have been right with Bourret/DuPuis, but we don't have DuPuis anymore either. St. Louis robbed us last year too. Frankly, Zhitnik/Coburn looked like a decent deal too, especially considering that he wasn't going to be a rent-a-player.

I think the problem isn't so much development as evaluation. There have been significant misses in the early rounds of the draft. And then, those players struggle in the minors for either lack of skill or 'character' issues. Then, the mis-evaluation seems to continue in various directions - Stefan as a #1, when he wouldn't even let you see his medical records(!); Slater & Kari are deemed ready, when they really aren't; Coburn is thought to be not ready, when he was close enough to hold on to. And if there truly was an attitude problem with Coburn, that is also an evaluation issue, much as the work ethic and physical fitness of Lehtonen, when he came out.



Shit. I had a big post all typed up and I lost it.

Suffice it to say that I mostly agree with Clam. It looks like player personell is a mess and scouting isn't exactly top notch either. However, the Tkachuk deal was much worse than the Zhitnik deal and I don't remember anyone complaining when Zhitnik scored 14 points in 18 games last year after the trade.

This is part of the discussion that I was trying to have with d_j, but sadly he was too busy.

 
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  CheapSeats
 
March 12, 2008 12:14:19 pm
 
  Miss Stake

Location: NÍT Q▄ÍTTE DR┼NII PÍ▄TINEN!!!!
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quote:
GordieHoweHat-trick said...
quote:
clambake said...I think the problem isn't so much development as evaluation.


It's interesting that the best rookie on this team came out of Sweeden, not Chicago.

TSN did an article a little while back on the difference between teams that are affiliated with AHL teams and those that own their minor league teams. Not surprisingly, the teams that own their minor league system are better at developing talent.

There really isn't any incentive for Chicago to be developing players for the Atlanta system and they don't seem to be doing it. Perhaps the Thrashers should look to a new affiliation.



Don't know why it would be different if the owners don't spend the $ to have some control.


 
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  3putt
 
March 12, 2008 2:04:38 pm
 
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quote:
Rasp said...
Suffice it to say that I mostly agree with Clam. It looks like player personell is a mess and scouting isn't exactly top notch either. However, the Tkachuk deal was much worse than the Zhitnik deal and I don't remember anyone complaining when Zhitnik scored 14 points in 18 games last year after the trade.




Well, I am bad at digging up old quotes, but I remember being PISSED at both the Zhitnik deal and the Tkachuck deal. How the **** Tkachuck is worth more than Hossa, I have no idea, at the time it seemed very high and the poison pill felt wrong. I understand the GM wanting to kick the players in the pants with the complacency, but the Zhitnik deal looked like pandering to the coach rather than a development deal. I liked BH but he never seemed to give kids a chance unless their names were Kari or Ilya. He wanted a team of vets and we got old fast last year.

Over all, my thoughts last year at the deadline were the same as now. If your team can not make the playoffs then it is not ready or not being developed correctly. Deadline deals with rental players are not for bubble teams and Vets for developing players are also not for bubble teams.

 
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  Holland
 
March 12, 2008 2:41:05 pm
 
  lolland

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quote:
clambake said...
but we don't have DuPuis anymore either.



Dupuis' a UFA. Before the deadline, DW approached his agent about a new contract. His asking price was too high. If you're going to have to enter into tough negotiations with him, why wouldn't you wait until after the season and get an asset for him in the meantime? It's not like we need him in the interim.

Plus, PIT asked for Dupuis or Perrin... You'd rather give up Perrin?

 
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  Holland
 
March 12, 2008 2:43:41 pm
 
  lolland

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quote:
3putt said...
How the **** Tkachuck is worth more than Hossa



I don't think you can compare. I think this year, teams spent less on players BECAUSE of last year. So many people overpaid last year. The Forsberg deal, especially, left a sour taste. Don's offer for Tkachuk was comparable to last year's spending.

 
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  Valabiktorian
 
March 12, 2008 2:55:28 pm
 
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quote:
3putt said...
How the **** Tkachuck is worth more than Hossa


He's not. We got more for Hossa than we gave up for Tkachuk.

Colby Armstrong, Eric Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a first round pick >> Glen Metropolit, a first, second, and third-round pick.

 
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  Holland
 
March 12, 2008 3:01:41 pm
 
  lolland

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quote:
Valabiktorian said...
Colby Armstrong, Eric Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a first round pick



three firsts and a third.

 
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  3putt
 
March 12, 2008 3:15:16 pm
 
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quote:
Valabiktorian said...
quote:
3putt said...
How the **** Tkachuck is worth more than Hossa


He's not. We got more for Hossa than we gave up for Tkachuk.

Colby Armstrong, Eric Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a first round pick >> Glen Metropolit, a first, second, and third-round pick.



OK, my bad. I was refering to IF, big IF we signed Tkachuck to an extension. But even with that, I guess we did get more firsts for Hossa.

Anyway........ Just wishing the team looked better.

 
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