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The Secret Board -> Texas executed an innocent man
 
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  tvwxman
 
August 27, 2009 12:48:21 pm
 
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So you're telling me that government don't do life or death decisions well?
 
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  DDF
 
August 27, 2009 12:50:44 pm
 
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quote:
tvwxman said...
So you're telling me that government don't do life or death decisions well?



I'm saying we should get rid of the death penalty because mistakes can happen and innocent people can be executed.

 
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  Take no Jive
 
August 27, 2009 12:59:00 pm
 
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quote:
DDF said...
quote:
tvwxman said...
So you're telling me that government don't do life or death decisions well?



I'm saying we should get rid of the death penalty because mistakes can happen and innocent people can be executed.



He sounds like a swell guy. Maybe you should look a little deeper than the "middle school depth" newspaper articles you take for fact (when they are just opinions)

Criminal History:
At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.
The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.
Dr. James Grigson testified for the state at punishment stating that Willingham fits the profile of a sociopath whose conduct becomes more violent over time, and who lacks a conscience. He expressed his opinion that an individual demonstrating this type of behavior can not be rehabilitated in any manner.

 
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  DDF
 
August 27, 2009 1:00:45 pm
 
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quote:
Take no Jive said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
tvwxman said...
So you're telling me that government don't do life or death decisions well?



I'm saying we should get rid of the death penalty because mistakes can happen and innocent people can be executed.



He sounds like a swell guy. Maybe you should look a little deeper than the "middle school depth" newspaper articles you take for fact (when they are just opinions)

Criminal History:
At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.
The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.
Dr. James Grigson testified for the state at punishment stating that Willingham fits the profile of a sociopath whose conduct becomes more violent over time, and who lacks a conscience. He expressed his opinion that an individual demonstrating this type of behavior can not be rehabilitated in any manner.



I don't care how nice or not nice a guy he was. The question is: Was he guilty of a capital crime?

 
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  Take no Jive
 
August 27, 2009 1:00:54 pm
 
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quote:
Take no Jive said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
tvwxman said...
So you're telling me that government don't do life or death decisions well?



I'm saying we should get rid of the death penalty because mistakes can happen and innocent people can be executed.



He sounds like a swell guy. Maybe you should look a little deeper than the "middle school depth" newspaper articles you take for fact (when they are just opinions)

Criminal History:
At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.
The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.
Dr. James Grigson testified for the state at punishment stating that Willingham fits the profile of a sociopath whose conduct becomes more violent over time, and who lacks a conscience. He expressed his opinion that an individual demonstrating this type of behavior can not be rehabilitated in any manner.



Oops, here's a little more on the "Texas Husband of the Year"...

The Execution: For his final meal, Willingham had three barbecued pork ribs, two orders of onion rings, fried okra, three beef enchiladas with cheese and two slices of lemon cream pie.

Once in the execution room he said his final words: "I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, Road Dog."

He then looked at his ex-wife who was watching from the witness room and said "I hope you rot in hell, bitch." and tried to make an obscene gesture with his strapped down hand as he continued to yell obscenities at her.


http://crime.about.com/od/death/p/x14_willingham.htm

 
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  kio
 
August 27, 2009 1:01:07 pm
 
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This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.
 
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  DDF
 
August 27, 2009 1:02:39 pm
 
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quote:
kio said...
This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.



The guy looked at all the evidence against Willingham apparently.

 
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  kio
 
August 27, 2009 1:05:03 pm
 
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quote:
DDF said...
quote:
kio said...
This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.



The guy looked at all the evidence against Willingham apparently.




But we don't know that. He obviously had no physical evidence to review. The only things I se are what GHT and Jive posted. Your article says there is some report. What report? I'm not arguing the death penalty with you, but I see nothing but some "experts" opinion that he was innocent.

 
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  hoosier fan
 
August 27, 2009 1:06:34 pm
 
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quote:
Take no Jive said...
"From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne."

"I hope you rot in hell, bitch."



Another godbot felon.

 
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  El Profesor
 
August 27, 2009 1:08:39 pm
 
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From the Chicago Tribune
quote:
In a withering critique, a nationally known fire scientist has told a state commission on forensics that Texas fire investigators had no basis to rule a deadly house fire was an arson -- a finding that led to the murder conviction and execution of Cameron Todd Willingham.

The finding comes in the first state-sanctioned review of an execution in Texas, home to the country's busiest death chamber. If the commission reaches the same conclusion, it could lead to the first-ever declaration by an official state body that an inmate was wrongly executed.

Indeed, the report concludes there was no evidence to determine that the December 1991 fire was even set, and it leaves open the possibility the blaze that killed three children was an accident and there was no crime at all -- the same findings found in a Chicago Tribune investigation of the case published in December 2004.

Willingham, the father of those children, was executed in February 2004. He protested his innocence to the end.

The Tribune obtained a copy of the review by Craig Beyler, of Hughes Associates Inc., which was conducted for the Texas Forensic Science Commission, created to investigate allegations of forensic error and misconduct. The re-examination of the Willingham case comes as many forensic disciplines face scrutiny for playing a role in wrongful convictions that have been exposed by DNA and other scientific advances.

Among Beyler's key findings: that investigators failed to examine all of the electrical outlets and appliances in the Willinghams' house in the small Texas town of Corsicana, did not consider other potential causes for the fire, came to conclusions that contradicted witnesses at the scene, and wrongly concluded Willingham's injuries could not have been caused as he said they were.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-texas-execute-0824-082aug25,0,5812073.story

 
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  JoeSieve
 
August 27, 2009 1:09:49 pm
 
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quote:
kio said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
kio said...
This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.



The guy looked at all the evidence against Willingham apparently.




But we don't know that. He obviously had no physical evidence to review. The only things I se are what GHT and Jive posted. Your article says there is some report. What report? I'm not arguing the death penalty with you, but I see nothing but some "experts" opinion that he was innocent.



http://stopexecutions.blogspot.com/2009/08/full-text-of-report-on-analysis-of.html


 
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  Take no Jive
 
August 27, 2009 1:10:43 pm
 
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quote:
kio said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
kio said...
This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.



The guy looked at all the evidence against Willingham apparently.




But we don't know that. He obviously had no physical evidence to review. The only things I se are what GHT and Jive posted. Your article says there is some report. What report? I'm not arguing the death penalty with you, but I see nothing but some "experts" opinion that he was innocent.



Bottomline, the guy had a track record as being a scumbag. Suspicious fire, dead kids, acts like a lunatic = guilty in TX.

What this is now is lawyers raking the coals to see if they can get a spark. They take a dead case and inject a bunch of doubt after the fact. Can't prove it all over again, so he must be innocent. I find it funny that the guy who got this rolling was Barry Scheck.."if the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project, a non-profit organization responsible for scores of DNA exonerations, called the hiring of Beyler an "encouraging sign" and said he hoped Beyler would be able to "get to the bottom" of the case that sent Willingham to a lethal injection.

 
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  JoeSieve
 
August 27, 2009 1:14:49 pm
 
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quote:
Take no Jive said...
quote:
kio said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
kio said...
This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.



The guy looked at all the evidence against Willingham apparently.




But we don't know that. He obviously had no physical evidence to review. The only things I se are what GHT and Jive posted. Your article says there is some report. What report? I'm not arguing the death penalty with you, but I see nothing but some "experts" opinion that he was innocent.



Bottomline, the guy had a track record as being a scumbag. Suspicious fire, dead kids, acts like a lunatic = guilty in TX.

What this is now is lawyers raking the coals to see if they can get a spark. They take a dead case and inject a bunch of doubt after the fact. Can't prove it all over again, so he must be innocent. I find it funny that the guy who got this rolling was Barry Scheck.."if the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project, a non-profit organization responsible for scores of DNA exonerations, called the hiring of Beyler an "encouraging sign" and said he hoped Beyler would be able to "get to the bottom" of the case that sent Willingham to a lethal injection.



No, that's not what this is now.

quote:
The finding comes in the first state-sanctioned review of an execution in Texas, home to the country's busiest death chamber. If the commission reaches the same conclusion, it could lead to the first-ever declaration by an official state body that an inmate was wrongly executed.



 
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  Take no Jive
 
August 27, 2009 1:19:20 pm
 
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quote:
JoeSieve said...
quote:
Take no Jive said...
quote:
kio said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
kio said...
This happened 18 years ago. This conclusion is based on what? Not saying this guy is right or wrong, but his conclusion is based on what.



The guy looked at all the evidence against Willingham apparently.




But we don't know that. He obviously had no physical evidence to review. The only things I se are what GHT and Jive posted. Your article says there is some report. What report? I'm not arguing the death penalty with you, but I see nothing but some "experts" opinion that he was innocent.



Bottomline, the guy had a track record as being a scumbag. Suspicious fire, dead kids, acts like a lunatic = guilty in TX.

What this is now is lawyers raking the coals to see if they can get a spark. They take a dead case and inject a bunch of doubt after the fact. Can't prove it all over again, so he must be innocent. I find it funny that the guy who got this rolling was Barry Scheck.."if the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

Barry Scheck of the Innocence Project, a non-profit organization responsible for scores of DNA exonerations, called the hiring of Beyler an "encouraging sign" and said he hoped Beyler would be able to "get to the bottom" of the case that sent Willingham to a lethal injection.



No, that's not what this is now.

quote:
The finding comes in the first state-sanctioned review of an execution in Texas, home to the country's busiest death chamber. If the commission reaches the same conclusion, it could lead to the first-ever declaration by an official state body that an inmate was wrongly executed.





Tell you what, none of us will ever know the "truth". How about he was put to death because there was a fire at his house (fact), with his children inside (fact) and there was testimony that he did not attempt to save them. I will had his criminal history to support motive.

 
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  Take no Jive
 
August 27, 2009 1:22:14 pm
 
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quote:
Take no Jive said...

Tell you what, none of us will ever know the "truth". How about he was put to death because there was a fire at his house (fact), with his children inside (fact) and there was testimony that he did not attempt to save them. I will had his criminal history to support motive.



Now that I think about it, without physical evidence from the children's bodies, we can't prove that they were not dead already. You know, murdered by someone else and then returned to the home at the exact time it burst into flames on its own. Maybe the children were involved in a toddler murder/suicide plot? You can't prove it wasn't.

 
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  stolemyquarter
 
August 27, 2009 1:28:53 pm
 
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quote:
Take no Jive said...
quote:
Take no Jive said...
quote:
DDF said...
quote:
tvwxman said...
So you're telling me that government don't do life or death decisions well?



I'm saying we should get rid of the death penalty because mistakes can happen and innocent people can be executed.



He sounds like a swell guy. Maybe you should look a little deeper than the "middle school depth" newspaper articles you take for fact (when they are just opinions)

Criminal History:
At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.
The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.
Dr. James Grigson testified for the state at punishment stating that Willingham fits the profile of a sociopath whose conduct becomes more violent over time, and who lacks a conscience. He expressed his opinion that an individual demonstrating this type of behavior can not be rehabilitated in any manner.



Oops, here's a little more on the "Texas Husband of the Year"...

The Execution: For his final meal, Willingham had three barbecued pork ribs, two orders of onion rings, fried okra, three beef enchiladas with cheese and two slices of lemon cream pie.

Once in the execution room he said his final words: "I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, Road Dog."

He then looked at his ex-wife who was watching from the witness room and said "I hope you rot in hell, bitch." and tried to make an obscene gesture with his strapped down hand as he continued to yell obscenities at her.


http://crime.about.com/od/death/p/x14_willingham.htm




Additionally, from link above

Neighbors Say Willingham Showed No Remorse:

The testimony at trial demonstrates that Willingham neither showed remorse for his actions nor grieved the loss of his three children. Willingham's neighbors testified that when the fire blew out the windows, Willingham hollered about his car and ran to move it away from the fire to avoid its being damaged. A fire fighter also testified that Willingham was upset that his dart board was burned.

Christmas Eve - The Day After the Fire:

One of Willingham's neighbors testified that the morning following the house fire, Christmas Eve, Willingham and his wife were at the burned house going through the debris while playing music and laughing.



Not grieving the death of his kids, more worried about his car and dart board, having a great Christmas without those pesky kids being around.

Yup, TX really dropped the ball on this one.

 
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  El Profesor
 
August 27, 2009 1:31:14 pm
 
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quote:
stolemyquarter said...
Yup, TX really dropped the ball on this one.



And yet there is no death penalty for being a scumbag.

 
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  hoosier fan
 
August 27, 2009 1:32:33 pm
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
stolemyquarter said...
Yup, TX really dropped the ball on this one.



And yet there is no death penalty for being a scumbag.



lucky for you

:too_fucking_obvious_face:

 
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  El Profesor
 
August 27, 2009 1:33:52 pm
 
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quote:
hoosier fan said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
stolemyquarter said...
Yup, TX really dropped the ball on this one.



And yet there is no death penalty for being a scumbag.



lucky for you

:too_fucking_obvious_face:



Good thing I've never been to Texas.

 
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  stolemyquarter
 
August 27, 2009 1:36:35 pm
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
stolemyquarter said...
Yup, TX really dropped the ball on this one.



And yet there is no death penalty for being a scumbag.



Seems to me most people being executed fall into the scumbag category. So maybe there is?

 
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