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Atlanta Thrashers -> Bye Kovy
 
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  TheBrickwall
 
February 5, 2010 9:34:35 am
 
  He's a Brick...House
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quote:
Section119 said...
The deal is done.

No one is going to change it.

You can always root for another team.


You know, you're right.

I guess we can at least all be happy we're not Caps fans. That collection of spare parts and rejects will never go anywhere with that Ovechkin contract hanging around it's neck...


 
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  Blotto
 
February 5, 2010 10:00:23 am
 
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What a surprise. The folks that don't care for Waddell are moaning. He could have received Elias, Parise, Brodeur and the ghost of Scott Stevens and some people would bitch that he didn't get Ken Daneyko in the deal.

Ilya Kovalchuk was leaving Atlanta. If he sticks to his contract demands it looks like he may be going to the KHL where he can get that kind of coin. We just received a top rookie winger, an upgrade on defense that has the skating ability to play in our coaches system, the captain of the Canadian national junior team that plays with an edge this team does not currently own (can you imagine Cormier and Klingberg on our 3rd line in a couple years? YEESH!) and a first rounder, giving us 2, in a deep draft.

Honestly? I doubt I could be any more pleased with the return.

 
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  3putt
 
February 5, 2010 10:29:26 am
 
  2nd Line Scorer

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quote:
THEbrickwall said...


You know, you're right.

I guess we can at least all be happy we're not Caps fans. That collection of spare parts and rejects will never go anywhere with that Ovechkin contract hanging around it's neck...




My thought exactly. Put it up.

 
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  Blotto
 
February 5, 2010 10:39:32 am
 
  The hair, the myth, the legend.

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quote:
THEbrickwall said...
quote:
Section119 said...
The deal is done.

No one is going to change it.

You can always root for another team.


You know, you're right.

I guess we can at least all be happy we're not Caps fans. That collection of spare parts and rejects will never go anywhere with that Ovechkin contract hanging around it's neck...





Ovechkin is arguably the best player in the world and floats considerably less than Kovalchuk yet Kovalchuk was asking for more money.

The Caps are not going to be able to keep Semin this off season. They are feeling the effects of the cap.

The Caps cannot afford a decent goaltender and putting their eggs in the Varlamov basket (isn't he the villain in the harry potter books?).


The Caps are on a fantastic roll but I don't think they're getting out of the east simply because they lack the depth in their roster to endure the grind of the playoffs

 
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  redTHRASH
 
February 5, 2010 10:56:40 am
 
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quote:
Blotto said...
Honestly? I doubt I could be any more pleased with the return.



I agree 100 % . Yesterday I thought no one would go for his salary demand and we'd be stuck with a malcontent attitude - what could be worse on.

As much as I think that Don's track record should make him our ex-GM I think he did a pretty good job of picking up some good young pieces.

Let's start playing defense and not be at the bottom of the league with goals against.


 
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  Rasp
 
February 5, 2010 11:12:10 am
 
  Floppy

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quote:
Green Hornet said...


1. The Hossa deal immediately comes to mind. The Coburn deal is another (yeah, I know he hasn't fully lived up to his potential, but he's still better than Shit-nik). And while Tkachuk helped secure our only playoff appearance to date, we wound up giving up several picks AND giving one of those picks back AND Tkachuk wound up back in St. Louis anyway. And those are just the instances I can think of off the top of my head.



He got a roster player, PIT top prospect and a 1st for a rental player. How is that getting pantsed? EC turned out to be a head case but he was turned into Eric O'Dell, who is a nice piece for a scrub. Not pantsed for a guy EVERYONE knew wasn't going to resign in Atlanta.

Trading Coburn for Zhitnik is starting to look like a wash. Zhitnik was very good down the stretch and helped get Atlanta into the playoffs. Not sure what value you can put on that. Coburn had one good year for the Phlyers and is now their whipping boy. While DW probably lost that trade, it's not nearly a pantsing.

Tkachuck was traded for a middling center, a 3rd and a 2nd. Again, a big part of the push to make the playoffs. I dunno if it was an overpayment as neither pick are on the radar for St Louis.

Did DW pay too much tomake the playoffs by trading a sulking Dman and a middling center for 2 guys who played very well down the stretch? Maybe. But it wasn't a pantsing. Maybe you and I have a different idea of pantsing.


2. The post below lists a few possibilities, but one thing is clear. He almost certainly could've gotten a better deal had he NOT released this afternoon's statement until AFTER completing the trade. Doing so before hand was tantamount to putting an "Everything must go" sign out in front of the Bulb with a picture of Kovy on it.


I don't see any of the possibilities below, but I think he got a good return for a rental. 2 very good roster players, a prospect who has a lot of upside and is the captain of the Canadian WJ team and a #1 pick. I certainly didn't expect to get all of that for Kovalchuck. Certainly not from the Devils. I'm interested to see Ilya play in a defense-first system. I think it's a mismatch, but LL knows a lot more about players and hockey than I do.

 
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  dmatos
 
February 5, 2010 11:23:51 am
 
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Good analysis by McKenzie...

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=309019

(only part of the end, but it's worth the short read).


Waddell said he wanted a top six forward. Bergfors could be that. We'll see. He said he wanted a top four defenceman. Oduya, based on minutes played in New Jersey, is that. Just. He said he wanted a prospect and Cormier is that. He said he wanted a first rounder and he got one.

Mission accomplished, for the most part, though it didn't turn out to be nearly as exciting and impactful as many would have liked.

 
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  Pfloyd75
 
February 5, 2010 11:50:06 am
 
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Its easy to say that DW got hosed in the deal and that he could have gotten more, but without knowing exactly what other teams offered you can't really say that he didn't get good value for the Kovalchuk rental. My guess is that he got the most that the market was willing to bear so, while I may have hoped for more, this trade is ok. I am hoping that Oduya and Bergfors will blossom under a more open offensive system and maybe Cormier will get his head screwed on straight.

Still, DW needs to go. Not necessarily for this trade, but for letting things get to this point. Plus, its time for a change.

 
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  ducksthrashers2002
 
February 5, 2010 11:57:40 am
 
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quote:
Inferno said...
quote:
Behind The Net said...
quote:
Inferno said...
you really think thats a steep price? imho thats right up there with the Thornton and the Jagr for Carter deals as one of the worst ive ever seen. Youre telling me for a 50 goal scorer the best they could do is a 2nd or 3rd pairing defenseman, a 3rd liner, and a prospect who probably will never sniff the NHL...oh, and a very low draft pick.

im sorry, thats a horrendous return for what will likely be a hall of fame player entering the prime of his career. even if it is just a rental, and knowing lou, he wont be.



Let the Rangers crying commence.

Instead of blaming Waddell, why don't you blame Sather for not offering more? Wade Fucking Redden? Odouya is an upgrade over Rozy. Bergfors looks to be on a Ryan Callahan type of trajectory. Cormier must have something about him, as he was the C on the Canadian Junior team, they don't just hand that out like a participation medal. And they basically flip their 2nd to a late 1st in the draft, and then get a late 2nd for it.

As a former Devils fan, I do think Ilya just might like the low key atmosphere that surrounds the Devils. Light media. Not much fan pressure. Nice place to raise a family...etc.




First off, Bergfors on Callahan trajectory? he has never scored more than 22 goals at any level of hockey and he is currently 22 years old. By the age of 22, Callahan had scored 50+ goals in the OHL, and have scored 35+ in the AHL. Know how many points Bergfors has in his last 16 games? 1...an assist. He started off red hot and has cooled down considerably, as you would expect from a kid with limited goal scoring potential. he's a 3rd liner. Callahan would be a steady 25/25 guy if the Rangers didn't have wastes of space like Drury, Kotalik, Higgins, Lisin, Boyle, Brashear, Voros, etc playing with him here and there. Callahan is a coaches dream, he hits, he PK's he scores goals, he makes plays, he does everything right, and would be scoring if he had any kind of competent linemates with him. when we had Gomez centering him, a halfway decent center, Callahan was on pace to score 35-40 goals.

Oduya is an upgrade of Rozsival? On a SIGNFICANTLY more talented NJ team Oduya is really lighting it up with his 2 goals and 2 assists this year. Rozsival is undoubtedly struggling this year, but he at least has a goal and 13 assists, and has scored 30, 38,40, and 30 points the previous 4 years...all better than Oduyas best season, and all played on NJ Devils teams that finished ahead of the Rangers if im not mistaken. Cormier was the C on the Canadian Junior team and all everyone has talked about was what a colossal mistake it was. He was benched by his coach several times, and was called out in the canadian media for his lack of production in the tournament with only 2 goals and 3 assists in the tournament (for the record, the 4 Rangers prospects in the tournament did as follows, Horak playing for a horrible Czech team had a goal and an assist, Ryan Borque had 3 assists...now the 2 players that Waddell was asking for had...Kreider:6 goals, 1 assist, and Stepan, who led the tournament had 4 goals and 10 assists)

Cormier, if everything works out 100%, and if he can get his homicidal tendancies under wraps, will top out as Chris Neil...a guy who can chip in 10-15 goals, and murder you with hits. He probably will end up being like Ryan Hollweg though, and out of the league within a few years if he cant get his head on straight.

Spin it how you want you guys got fucking hosed, and I am not a jealous Ranger fan here, I don't particularly care about the trade since it doesnt impact my team whatsoever. The Rangers suck with Kovalchuk on the Thrashers, and the Rangers suck with Kovalchuk on the Devils. Even if the Rangers traded for Kovalchuk, we woulda sucked this year too since we just have way too many holes, and trading for Kovy would have opened up even more holes. The trade for you guys gives you, at absolute best, a 2nd-3rd liner, a 2nd pairing defenseman, and a homicidal 3rd line grinder. You didnt get a single player with first line upside. NOT ONE!!!! even the first rounder will likely be low, in which case you are drafting a 2nd liner in a weak draft (At that level). At least in the Hossa deal you picked up Angelo Esposito, who may have had first line upside if everythign worked out (as doubtful as it was), but in this one, at BEST you have a 2nd liner...AT BEST!!! you dont fucking trade one of the 5 best goal scorers, and a sure fire hall of famer in the prime years of his career for THAT kind of a return. It's not nearly enough, not by a mile.



Absolutely spot on. As I mentioned a few days ago, NJ made the most sense as far as a rental, but I was scared to death of how badly Lou Lamoriello would school DW.

NJ drafts players who play well in their system. Oduya's career +/- is a function of him playing second and third pairing minutes with Broduer standing behind him in net. In addition, while people see NJ as a boring, trap team, they have often been at the top half of the league in scoring. Oduya is a 7th round pick who will bring nothing of value to the Thrashers. He's a product of the system, pure and simple. It's the reason that NJ can roll new defensemen into the lineup without ever really skipping a beat.

Bergfors is Tommi Kallio v2.0. This is not some 18 year old kid with top-end potential. He's 22 already and should be showing more than he has. Cormier is a head-case (no pun intended). Again, a player who could fit into the grinding NJ style, but I don't see him developing in Atlanta.

The rest of the trade was really Salmela and an early second for a late first and second.

Compare this trade to what Anaheim got for Pronger before the season. A top six forward in Lupul (proven 30 goal scorer), a top defensive prospect (former first rounder) in Sbisa who already had NHL experience and will have Olympic experience this year (still only 18) and two #1's. All that for a defensement nearly 10 years older than Kovy. The difference is Anaheim knew they had to trade him and did so before the draft. Any GM with a brain would have done the same.




 
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  Green Hornet
 
February 5, 2010 12:12:01 pm
 
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You know, there's one major problem with any of these arguments about what Bergsfor, Cormier or the draft picks COULD become (or O'Dell or Esposito in arguments about past DW trades).

By the time we find out one way or the other, they'll be playing for the Winnipeg Thrashers (or Kansas City or Vegas or Ontario or insert name of city OTHER THAN Atlanta here).

 
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  Green Hornet
 
February 5, 2010 12:20:49 pm
 
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quote:
TheDowman said...
He could also be thinking that by getting traded as a rental to another team, there will erupt enough of an outcry from fans for letting the face of the team walk, that DW will gets tossed, and the ASG will pull their heads out of their asses long enough to realize how bad they're fucking this team over.

Then when the team gets a renewed sense of "how fucked up is our management here?" enough will change that he can re-sign in Atlanta next season and get on a team that will actually go somewhere in the city he wants to stay in.



OK, clearly I've had too much here. Does anyone else want a hit off the roach?



Aside from Tkachuk LEAVING us to go back to St. Louis, when else has this happened in the NHL? I'd be willing to bet you can count the times on one hand.

The only way there's a remote chance in**** this happens is if, as you mentioned above, DW gets shit-canned. Even then, it may take ASG selling to a new ownership group that gives a rat's *** about hockey. Problem with that is, no group like that AND that will commit to keeping the franchise in Atlanta exists as of now.

Face it, he's gone and he ain't coming back. Kind of like what I'm afraid may happen to our Thrashers within a year or two of a settlement in the Octocluster lawsuit unless something changes dramatically.

 
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  The Falconer
 
February 5, 2010 1:17:35 pm
 
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quote:
Inferno said...
oduya, cormier, bergfors and a first that will likely be in the low 20's?

seriously? thats all they could get for Kovalchuk?



and what offer was better, pray tell?

 
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  Rasp
 
February 5, 2010 1:26:11 pm
 
  Floppy

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quote:
ducksthrashers2002 said...
NJ drafts players who play well in their system.



Certainly youa ren't suggesting that players who have played in NJ are unfit to play in other organizations. I shouldn't have to list the players who have been successful after having left the NJ organization.

quote:
Compare this trade to what Anaheim got for Pronger before the season. A top six forward in Lupul (proven 30 goal scorer), a top defensive prospect (former first rounder) in Sbisa who already had NHL experience and will have Olympic experience this year (still only 18) and two #1's. All that for a defensement nearly 10 years older than Kovy. The difference is Anaheim knew they had to trade him and did so before the draft. Any GM with a brain would have done the same.



The same Chris Pronger who won a Hart, a Norris and 3 Stanley Cups? Not really much of a comparison is it? Kovalchuk said he wanted to stay in Atlanta. Why would you trade a player who said he wanted to stay, out of spite?


 
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  behind the net
 
February 5, 2010 1:49:21 pm
 
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Pronger was also signed for one more year, if I am not mistaken.

If Ilya gets moved in September, the return would have been much greater.

 
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  ChappyThrasher
 
February 5, 2010 1:50:29 pm
 
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quote:
Green Hornet said...
You know, there's one major problem with any of these arguments about what Bergsfor, Cormier or the draft picks COULD become (or O'Dell or Esposito in arguments about past DW trades).

By the time we find out one way or the other, they'll be playing for the Winnipeg Thrashers (or Kansas City or Vegas or Ontario or insert name of city OTHER THAN Atlanta here).






I wish people would stop with this team is leaving bullshit. The NHL has bent over backwards to keep the Preds in Nashville and the Coyotes in Phoenix. They will do the same with the Thrashers. Maybe this teams needs the NHL to come in and take over.

 
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  kopykat
 
February 5, 2010 2:48:55 pm
 
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in regards to all the Capitals talk as to where are they going to go I have the answer: the Stanley Cup Finals. barring some of their pieced getting injured during the Olympics this team is absolutely TEARING IT UP and is strong favorite to win it all.

I do predict however that the "lowly" Thrashers put an end to their win streak tonight.

 
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  dmatos
 
February 5, 2010 2:53:04 pm
 
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Kinda makes you want to vomit, just a tiny bit... only the Rags would've been worse


 
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  dmatos
 
February 5, 2010 2:55:05 pm
 
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  kopykat
 
February 5, 2010 3:10:41 pm
 
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does NJ wear the old practice jerseys? weird.....
 
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  Holland
 
February 5, 2010 3:11:24 pm
 
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