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  Nnamath
 
February 4, 2010 10:26:31 am
 
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quote:
Millwood said...
quote:
Nnamath said...


b) of the people I have known who have served, they tell me the current policy is idiotic and should be changed.




Well no shit. They're all gay.








welcome back Millsie

 
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Fair enough, I like the rest of it.




 
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  Matheos
 
February 4, 2010 10:34:40 am
 
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quote:
Millwood said...
Studies have shown it's hard to throw a grenade with a limp wrist. Is this true johngalt??



Who told you that?


 
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it's probably not too sensible for me to get loaded while I listen to "Tooth And Nail" all by myself. But I can't deny my heart: I like to drink, and I like to rock. You think I'm an idiot? Fine. You don't have to come over.
 
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  IPTAY FAMILY
 
February 4, 2010 10:43:18 am
 
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I don't much care either way. If someone is willing to go through basic training, get shot at, or just in general run that much when someone is screaming at you at 5am then they are a better man than me....gay, straight, black, white, yellow. My gut says that if they are willing to serve, let them serve. I would go with what the generals say, with input from colonels, who had input from the majors who had input etc etc etc.

I have some questions about the mechanics (not the mechanics of being gay, I've already spoken to Millwood about that), but the main thing to me is more on a risk/reward at this point. CNN had numbers from a military survey that said somethign like 25% would not re-enlist or would consider not re-enlisting. Will the gays make up that difference? Are there 25% more folks that would be willing to serve with the gays? It just doesn't seem like now would be the time to risk enlistment numbers.

Of course, maybe we could start with the Air Force as a test case.

 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 10:49:13 am
 
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I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.
 
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Oh, like they knew the difference!
 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 10:54:59 am
 
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quote:
IPTAY FAMILY said...
Of course, maybe we could start with the Air Force as a test case.



Why bother the air force when the British Navy has been around for centuries?

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 10:55:27 am
 
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quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



Are we talking about gays or blacks or women?

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 11:04:24 am
 
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quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



How do you know it would have a negative impact on recruiting?

 
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  IPTAY FAMILY
 
February 4, 2010 11:14:53 am
 
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quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
IPTAY FAMILY said...
Of course, maybe we could start with the Air Force as a test case.



Why bother the air force when the British Navy has been around for centuries?



I've heard some folks use the British and Isreali military as examples where it hasn't affected numbers. But don't both of those countries have compulsory service?

 
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  COUSIN ELVIS
 
February 4, 2010 11:18:07 am
 
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LET PHUCKIN COLIN POWELL HOT RACK IT W BRUCE FROM BOYSTOWN THE IF HE THINKS ITS SUCH A GREAT GOT * IDEA THEN

EDIT: HOT RACKIN = WHEN THERES MORE CREW ON BOARD THERE IS RACKS ( NAUTIQUEL WORD FOR BUNK) SO U HAVE SHARE W SOMEBODY THATS ON A DIFFERENT WATCH SCHEDULE

I CANT SPEAK FOR GROUND POUNDER OR AIRDALES BUT ALLOWING WOMEN TO SERVE ON MILITARY WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA AND GUAYS ON BORD IS EVEN RWORST

THE BRASS KNOWS THIS BUT ITS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE GENERATIONS OF CITIZEN SPECTATERS THAT CLAIMS THERE RIGHTS BUT LOOKS OVER THERE SHOULDER WHEN ITS TIME TO DEFEND THEM

 
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"Do you guys have room for me in lala land??" MILLWOOD ON 16MAR10

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 11:20:56 am
 
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quote:
IPTAY FAMILY said...
quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
IPTAY FAMILY said...
Of course, maybe we could start with the Air Force as a test case.



Why bother the air force when the British Navy has been around for centuries?



I've heard some folks use the British and Isreali military as examples where it hasn't affected numbers. But don't both of those countries have compulsory service?



I don't believe Britain does, but I wouldn't swear to it. I don't know about Israel.

But wouldn't compulsory service w/ gays cause even more problems, if there were problems to be caused?

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 11:26:02 am
 
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quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE BRASS KNOWS THIS BUT ITS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE GENERATIONS OF CITIZEN SPECTATERS THAT CLAIMS THERE RIGHTS BUT LOOKS OVER THERE SHOULDER WHEN ITS TIME TO DEFEND THEM



This is total bullshit.

 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 11:31:57 am
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



How do you know it would have a negative impact on recruiting?




Because Im logical. I respect y'alls "the world should be fair" ideals, and I usually agree except where something more important might be compromised. I have no religious opinion on this issue either. I think Millwood's opinion expressed earlier has validity and he would know better than us.


 
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Oh, like they knew the difference!
 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 11:33:28 am
 
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quote:
Carz said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



How do you know it would have a negative impact on recruiting?



Because Im logical. I respect y'alls "the world should be fair" ideals, and I usually agree except where something more important might be compromised. I have no religious opinion on this issue either. I think Millwood's opinion expressed earlier has validity and he would know better than us.




Note to all posters: If someone questions you, don't give a real answer. Just say that you're logical and that will solve the issue.

 
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  IPTAY FAMILY
 
February 4, 2010 11:35:58 am
 
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quote:
H.A. said...

But wouldn't compulsory service w/ gays cause even more problems, if there were problems to be caused?



Maybe, maybe not. If you don't have a choice in service, then you don't have a choice to accept the factors that go into it (like gay, branch, uniform color) so you just deal with it. I don't think anywhere with compulsory service would be a good test case either way. And there is always the disconnect between opinion and behavior. So it could be that the folks that responded would ultimately view military serivice with queers > no military service. I'm not sure its a hand I double down on yet.

And according to Wikipedia Isreal does have mandatory service for both men and women. Britian doesn't at least on military, but it might have some sort of national service or maybe it is being proposed.

 
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  IPTAY FAMILY
 
February 4, 2010 11:46:49 am
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



How do you know it would have a negative impact on recruiting?



Because Im logical. I respect y'alls "the world should be fair" ideals, and I usually agree except where something more important might be compromised. I have no religious opinion on this issue either. I think Millwood's opinion expressed earlier has validity and he would know better than us.




Note to all posters: If someone questions you, don't give a real answer. Just say that you're logical and that will solve the issue.




This obviously isn't the article that CNN referenced but the numbers are. I can't find the actual Military Times article or survey to know if CNN or these crackpots are using the numbers correctly. I did notice that this "article" left out that the survey also showed that those in the military strongly against gays serving has fallen by at least 50% over the same time frame.

http://americansfortruth.com/news/poll-finds-10-of-soldiers-would-not-re-enlist-if-open-homosexuals-are-allowed-in-military.html

quote:
The 2008 Military Times Poll asked a new question that produced jaw-dropping results: “If the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy is overturned and gays are allowed to serve openly, how would you respond?” The article emphasized that 71% of respondents said they would continue to serve. But almost 10% said “I would not re-enlist or extend my service,” and 14% said “I would consider not re-enlisting or extending my service.” Only 6% expressed “No Opinion.”



 
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  COUSIN ELVIS
 
February 4, 2010 11:47:35 am
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE BRASS KNOWS THIS BUT ITS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE GENERATIONS OF CITIZEN SPECTATERS THAT CLAIMS THERE RIGHTS BUT LOOKS OVER THERE SHOULDER WHEN ITS TIME TO DEFEND THEM



This is total bullshit.





I GOT BAD NEWS FOR U AND HEAD ATTENTIONWHORE

THE MILITARY IS NOT EQUAL OPPURTUNIT EMPLOYER
NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE IF UR AGE OR UR IDEALS OR PHYSICAL ABILITY OR SEXEULITY IS AGAINST THE MISSION THEN SORRY

AND YA IN FOUR AND A HALF YEARS SEA TIME I NOW I SERVED WITH SOME GUAYS

ONE OF THE CIEF COOKS COOKS CT THE CHIEF JERKIN OFF TO PIC OF HIS BF AND TAPED IT AND PUT IT ON ALL THE SHIPS TV SYSTEM
AND I * YALL NOT HIS NAME WAS CHIEF MUFFLEY

USUALLY IT WAS BEST WHEN THEY WERE A QUARTEMASTER OR RADIOMAN SOMETHING WHERE THEY WDNT BE IN REG CONTACT WITH DECK FORCE OR ENGINE ROOM

 
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"Do you guys have room for me in lala land??" MILLWOOD ON 16MAR10

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 11:47:57 am
 
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quote:
Carz said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



How do you know it would have a negative impact on recruiting?




Because Im logical. I respect y'alls "the world should be fair" ideals, and I usually agree except where something more important might be compromised.



The thing is, security is not more important that personal freedom. Ask a Founding Father.

quote:
I have no religious opinion on this issue either. I think Millwood's opinion expressed earlier has validity and he would know better than us.


The Joint Chiefs and Colin Powell would know better than Millwood, too.

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 11:51:43 am
 
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quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE MILITARY IS NOT EQUAL OPPURTUNIT EMPLOYER
NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE IF UR AGE OR UR IDEALS OR PHYSICAL ABILITY OR SEXEULITY IS AGAINST THE MISSION THEN SORRY




And in the past you could be excluded because of your race or religion. Things have changed for the better and they will continue to do so.

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 11:52:49 am
 
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quote:
H.A. said...

The Joint Chiefs and Colin Powell would know better than Millwood, too.



Oh come on. They clearly aren't logical.

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 11:53:04 am
 
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quote:
IPTAY FAMILY said...
quote:
H.A. said...

But wouldn't compulsory service w/ gays cause even more problems, if there were problems to be caused?



Maybe, maybe not. If you don't have a choice in service, then you don't have a choice to accept the factors that go into it (like gay, branch, uniform color) so you just deal with it. I don't think anywhere with compulsory service would be a good test case either way. And there is always the disconnect between opinion and behavior. So it could be that the folks that responded would ultimately view military serivice with queers > no military service. I'm not sure its a hand I double down on yet.



Same here. But I don't actually care. I might be too idealistic, but I think our military people are better than that. I think the people who think there will be widespread problems are not giving our soldiers enough credit.

There will always be bigots, though. We treat the homophobes in the military the same way we treat the racists. They either change their views, shut their mouths, or get in heaps of trouble.

quote:
And according to Wikipedia Isreal does have mandatory service for both men and women. Britian doesn't at least on military, but it might have some sort of national service or maybe it is being proposed.



I haven't heard that about Britain. I have a lot of friends who live there, and they've never mentioned anything like that coming down.

 
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