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  IPTAY FAMILY
 
February 4, 2010 11:55:37 am
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE MILITARY IS NOT EQUAL OPPURTUNIT EMPLOYER
NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE IF UR AGE OR UR IDEALS OR PHYSICAL ABILITY OR SEXEULITY IS AGAINST THE MISSION THEN SORRY




And in the past you could be excluded because of your race or religion. Things have changed for the better and they will continue to do so.



Let me throw this out (not in support of the canadian mount-me miltary guy)

Would you support the military giving conscientious objector status for people who refused to fight with homosexuals like they do for people who object for religious or social/racial reasons?

 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 11:58:15 am
 
  Miss Stake

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quote:
hoosier fan said...
quote:
cheapseats said...
Collin Powell also supports ending DADT

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/03/powell.gays.military/index.html?hpt=T2



Preamble: I think Colin Powell has served his country honorably for many years and his life is a great American story. I'm glad for him that he is a Republican, even though I am not, and can think of many scenarios in which I would proudly vote for him.

So did this statement include an apology to the thousands who were discharged and the tens of thousands more who have had to live in the shadows due to his actions during the Clinton administration?

From Wikipedia:

"Powell was also instrumental in the 1993 implementation of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy..."



And as he said, a lot has changed in the 17 years since DADT was instituted.

But he was a soldier. He did what his president ordered him to do.

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 12:00:09 pm
 
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quote:
IPTAY FAMILY said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE MILITARY IS NOT EQUAL OPPURTUNIT EMPLOYER
NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE IF UR AGE OR UR IDEALS OR PHYSICAL ABILITY OR SEXEULITY IS AGAINST THE MISSION THEN SORRY




And in the past you could be excluded because of your race or religion. Things have changed for the better and they will continue to do so.



Let me throw this out (not in support of the canadian mount-me miltary guy)

Would you support the military giving conscientious objector status for people who refused to fight with homosexuals like they do for people who object for religious or social/racial reasons?



Do you know if they grant that status for those who refuse to fight with people of different races and religions? If they grant it in those cases, then I guess they should grant it for refusing to fight with homosexuals. Otherwise, the answer is no.

 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 12:03:22 pm
 
  Miss Stake

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quote:
tvwxman said...
Speaking as a libertarian, I don't care who you sleep with if you serve our country.

Speaking as the son of a 25-year navy veteran, I haven't met one soldier/sailor/marine who thinks its a good idea.



Huh.

I spoke with my airborne ranger/sniper/multiply decorated top top sergeant 25 year vet and all around righty dood yesterday. And he said that it sucked that the issue had been politicized by either side, that there had always BEEN gays serving in the military honorably (and opined that they were usually marines) and that while he thought it was a sin, it wasn't HIS sin.

He also agreed that if we lose a single useful arabic translator because of DADT it's a bad thing that hurts our military and that it is a shame to make people lie to be able to serve their country.

 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 12:04:29 pm
 
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quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
Carz said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I think the current system works. It is a tough situation, but it would not be well accepted and have a negative impact on recruiting. Its too important to our security to mess with it.



How do you know it would have a negative impact on recruiting?




Because Im logical. I respect y'alls "the world should be fair" ideals, and I usually agree except where something more important might be compromised.



The thing is, security is not more important that personal freedom. Ask a Founding Father.

quote:
I have no religious opinion on this issue either. I think Millwood's opinion expressed earlier has validity and he would know better than us.


The Joint Chiefs and Colin Powell would know better than Millwood, too.




I get your points. There were issues that the founding fathers could not foresee. I also think a former Marine knows more than a political type.

 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 12:07:03 pm
 
  Miss Stake

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quote:
Millwood said...
quote:
tvwxman said...


Speaking as the son of a 25-year navy veteran, I haven't met one soldier/sailor/marine who thinks its a good idea.



I may be all dumb and shit, but speaking as someone who was in the Marines for 4 years, unless a shitload has changed since I got out an openly gay Marine living in barracks with a bunch of junior Marines would not be a good idea at all. The problems would be endless. Not saying it's right, but 18, 19, 20, etc year old Marines can be pretty ruthless about certain things, and this would be one of them.

Do the gays have their own platoons?? Barracks?? Battalions?? Chowhalls??? Because thats what would have to happen if you did not want problems.



gay in the military should be like gay in any other workplace. none of your co-workers business. If some dood grabs your joint in the shower, it should be treated EXACTLY the same as if he'd grabbed a female marine behind the mess hall. Sexual harassment doesn't care about orientation.

Gay is just like black, latino, whatever. A reason that some insecure pricks will try to start some shit. And just like those traits, moving past problems with it is something that you will do for the good of the unit or we will ship your *** back home.



 
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  COUSIN ELVIS
 
February 4, 2010 12:08:09 pm
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE MILITARY IS NOT EQUAL OPPURTUNIT EMPLOYER
NEVER HAS BEEN NEVER WILL BE IF UR AGE OR UR IDEALS OR PHYSICAL ABILITY OR SEXEULITY IS AGAINST THE MISSION THEN SORRY




And in the past you could be excluded because of your race or religion. Things have changed for the better and they will continue to do so.



UNLESS ITS THE BLACK GUYS FROM THE IN LIVING COLOR SKITS BACK IN THE DAY THATS IN THE RACK UNDER ME THERE NO REASON FOR ME TO SUSPECT A BLACK PERSON WD BE THINKING WUT ITD BE LIKE TO TWO BLOCK ITWITH ME

JUST LIKE MILLWOOD SAID IF IT WAS CHUCK FROM KEY WEST ITS A DIFFERENT VIBE SO GET OF A UR HI HORSE ALREDY WITH THE CIVI RIGHTS ARGUMENT

I WILL SAY THIS IN MY EXPERIENCE DADT WAS ALOT BETTER THEN TO ALLOW WOMEN CREW TO BE ON SHIPSMIT CREATED TO MUCH FAVER AND RESENTMENT


 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 12:09:36 pm
 
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quote:
Carz said...
I get your points. There were issues that the founding fathers could not foresee. I also think a former Marine knows more than a political type.



So if a different "former" marine said something different, would you accept that as well?

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 12:11:30 pm
 
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quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
JUST LIKE MILLWOOD SAID IF IT WAS CHUCK FROM KEY WEST ITS A DIFFERENT VIBE SO GET OF A UR HI HORSE ALREDY WITH THE CIVI RIGHTS ARGUMENT




Sorry...civil rights are part of what the military is supposed to defend. If you can't handle that, you probably need to get on the high horse.

 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 12:11:42 pm
 
  Miss Stake

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quote:
COUSIN ELVIS said...
THE BRASS KNOWS THIS BUT ITS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE GENERATIONS OF CITIZEN SPECTATERS THAT CLAIMS THERE RIGHTS BUT LOOKS OVER THERE SHOULDER WHEN ITS TIME TO DEFEND THEM



Elvis has just hit a new high water mark for nonsensical stupidity. It's like Mo mated with thrashin or something.

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 12:15:26 pm
 
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quote:
Carz said...
I also think a former Marine knows more than a political type.



You seriously think Millwood knows more about the military from his four-year stint in the Marines than:

Michael Mullen, Admiral: Current Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; former Chief of Naval Operations; former Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Europe; former Commander, Allied Joint Force Command Naples, graduate U.S. Naval Academy class of 1968 (that's almost 42 years in the service)

Colin Powell, General (ret.): former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; former Commander, U.S. Army Forces, and a whole shitload of other positions, awards, and commendations, and a 35-year active military career.

These guys are political types who know less than a one-tour Marine?

(No offense to Millwood or any other military person -- but I don't think they would compare their knowledge of the military to Mike Mullen's.)

 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 12:16:14 pm
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I get your points. There were issues that the founding fathers could not foresee. I also think a former Marine knows more than a political type.



So if a different "former" marine said something different, would you accept that as well?



I'd accept popular opinion from a group of former military guys with no agenda. On here their is a false agenda of people pretending to be progressive, yet leave out the details of all the close friendships and activities with gay men. The camping tips, hunting trips, bar hopping etc they do with their gay friends. Just a lot of hollow talk.

 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 12:18:56 pm
 
  Miss Stake

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quote:
Carz said...
I'd accept popular opinion from a group of former military guys with no agenda. On here their is a false agenda of people pretending to be progressive, yet leave out the details of all the close friendships and activities with gay men. The camping tips, hunting trips, bar hopping etc they do with their gay friends. Just a lot of hollow talk.



So the US military top brass has been infected by fagiolas?

you just topped Elvis.

 
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  Millwood
 
February 4, 2010 12:20:00 pm
 
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quote:
cheapseats said...


I spoke with my airborne ranger/sniper/multiply decorated top top sergeant 25 year vet and all around righty dood yesterday. And he said that it sucked that the issue had been politicized by either side, that there had always BEEN gays serving in the military honorably (and opined that they were usually marines) and that while he thought it was a sin, it wasn't HIS sin.




You just made this guy up, didn't you?




 
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  johnny fontane
 
February 4, 2010 12:21:12 pm
 
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Brings a new meaning to Rear Admiral.
 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 12:21:16 pm
 
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quote:
cheapseats said...
quote:
Carz said...
I'd accept popular opinion from a group of former military guys with no agenda. On here their is a false agenda of people pretending to be progressive, yet leave out the details of all the close friendships and activities with gay men. The camping tips, hunting trips, bar hopping etc they do with their gay friends. Just a lot of hollow talk.



So the US military top brass has been infected by fagiolas?

you just topped Elvis.




I'd reply, but I don't understand your response.

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 12:21:19 pm
 
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quote:
Carz said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I get your points. There were issues that the founding fathers could not foresee. I also think a former Marine knows more than a political type.



So if a different "former" marine said something different, would you accept that as well?



I'd accept popular opinion from a group of former military guys with no agenda. On here their is a false agenda of people pretending to be progressive, yet leave out the details of all the close friendships and activities with gay men. The camping tips, hunting trips, bar hopping etc they do with their gay friends. Just a lot of hollow talk.



What details are being left out? I've hung out (bad choice of words) with quite a few gay dudes. Played tennis with them, been on fishing trips, worked with a lot of them also, and I still do. What's the big deal? What details do you want?

 
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  Homer
 
February 4, 2010 12:27:39 pm
 
  Bubba Ho-Tep

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openly gay in the military = reach arounds for everyone
 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 12:28:21 pm
 
  Miss Stake

Location: N諸 Q苤TTE DR臢II P周TINEN!!!!
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quote:
Millwood said...
quote:
cheapseats said...


I spoke with my airborne ranger/sniper/multiply decorated top top sergeant 25 year vet and all around righty dood yesterday. And he said that it sucked that the issue had been politicized by either side, that there had always BEEN gays serving in the military honorably (and opined that they were usually marines) and that while he thought it was a sin, it wasn't HIS sin.




You just made this guy up, didn't you?



nope. He's 3 months older than me, retiring with 25 in September. When the zombies come, I'm headed his way as fast as I can.


 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 12:28:40 pm
 
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quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
quote:
el profesor said...
quote:
Carz said...
I get your points. There were issues that the founding fathers could not foresee. I also think a former Marine knows more than a political type.



So if a different "former" marine said something different, would you accept that as well?



I'd accept popular opinion from a group of former military guys with no agenda. On here their is a false agenda of people pretending to be progressive, yet leave out the details of all the close friendships and activities with gay men. The camping tips, hunting trips, bar hopping etc they do with their gay friends. Just a lot of hollow talk.



What details are being left out? I've hung out (bad choice of words) with quite a few gay dudes. Played tennis with them, been on fishing trips, worked with a lot of them also, and I still do. What's the big deal? What details do you want?




See, there you go. I need more people to speak up about their many close personal friendships with gays and inter mingling with straight guys does not cause issues with group dynamics to convince me its a good move. If military units don't have chemistry issues over it, Im convinced.


 
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