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  michael corleone
 
February 4, 2010 6:53:08 pm
 
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Member Since: September, 2003
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quote:
El Profesor said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
El Profesor said...
quote:
michael corleone said...

I'm saying that being sexually attracted to another person causes a change in behavior. In specific ways. Must I expound on this further or is it not manifestly obvious?




We already know that gays have been serving in the military since there was a military. Has it really been that big of a problem?



Not openly. That's a big difference. That behavior was muted.



So tell us how much "open attraction" you think there will be. Or do you accept the possibility that gay people could control themselves and do their jobs in the military just as well as they do in civilian jobs? I don't hear about a lot of companies going out of business because gay people can't control themselves.



I'm specifically talking about close quarters, living together, showering, etc communally. How many companies have that as part of the work place? How well would hetero guys control themselves if they showered together with women in say a fitness center? I'm not saying that all gay men can't control themselves, just as I'm sure that most hetero guys could control themselves.

 
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  Carz
 
February 4, 2010 7:12:26 pm
 
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quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
Carz said...
I have no problems but Im more of a to each his own type. I just don't think others are. Im just in the awkward position of being politically incorrect in my opinion that we are not ready for it yet and the current system is not causing as many problems as the change will. I do hope it happens at some time in the future though.



Again, I'll draw your attention to the issue of racial integration, so you can likely ignore it once more. Blacks weren't allowed in the military because all the white soldiers were begging for them to be allowed in.

When you have the option, do the right thing, and let the consequences fall where they will.



Am I wrong in thinking that blacks were allowed in because they were needed?

 
  [ PM Carz ]   __________________
Oh, like they knew the difference!
 
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  Millwood
 
February 4, 2010 7:17:32 pm
 
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Location: Mom's Basement
Member Since: September, 2003
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quote:
Carz said...
quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
Carz said...
I have no problems but Im more of a to each his own type. I just don't think others are. Im just in the awkward position of being politically incorrect in my opinion that we are not ready for it yet and the current system is not causing as many problems as the change will. I do hope it happens at some time in the future though.



Again, I'll draw your attention to the issue of racial integration, so you can likely ignore it once more. Blacks weren't allowed in the military because all the white soldiers were begging for them to be allowed in.

When you have the option, do the right thing, and let the consequences fall where they will.



Am I wrong in thinking that blacks were allowed in because they were needed?



We were winning too many wars. Had to level the playing field.


 
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  Cortez the Killer
 
February 4, 2010 7:25:40 pm
 
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quote:
michael corleone said...
How well would hetero guys control themselves if they showered together with women in say a fitness center? I'm not saying that all gay men can't control themselves, just as I'm sure that most hetero guys could control themselves.



There are laws against rape, sexual assault, etc. As Millwood alluded to earlier, I doubt the gay servicemen and women will be the ones standing court martial due to their situation, anyway.

 
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  Cortez the Killer
 
February 4, 2010 7:26:17 pm
 
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quote:
michael corleone said...
I don't care either way



I think you do care one way and it's the wrong way.

 
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I have trouble with math and miss the point of articles.
 
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  michael corleone
 
February 4, 2010 7:48:05 pm
 
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quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I don't care either way



I think you do care one way and it's the wrong way.



You're right, I do care that we think of all the unintended consequences before we choose a way. On another level I don't care either way because this will be decided by fiat.

 
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  Cortez the Killer
 
February 4, 2010 7:49:54 pm
 
  Hall of Famer

Location: A palace in the sun...
Member Since: November, 2004
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quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I don't care either way



I think you do care one way and it's the wrong way.



You're right, I do care that we think of all the unintended consequences before we choose a way. On another level I don't care either way because this will be decided by fiat.



You should care that a large section of the population isn't able to protect the country because who they like to **** doesn't line up with who you think they should be fucking.

 
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  michael corleone
 
February 4, 2010 7:58:39 pm
 
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quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I don't care either way



I think you do care one way and it's the wrong way.



You're right, I do care that we think of all the unintended consequences before we choose a way. On another level I don't care either way because this will be decided by fiat.



You should care that a large section of the population isn't able to protect the country because who they like to **** doesn't line up with who you think they should be fucking.






Yup, that's it exactly....

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 8:00:09 pm
 
  Amen

Location:
Member Since: September, 2003
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quote:
Carz said...
quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
Carz said...
I have no problems but Im more of a to each his own type. I just don't think others are. Im just in the awkward position of being politically incorrect in my opinion that we are not ready for it yet and the current system is not causing as many problems as the change will. I do hope it happens at some time in the future though.



Again, I'll draw your attention to the issue of racial integration, so you can likely ignore it once more. Blacks weren't allowed in the military because all the white soldiers were begging for them to be allowed in.

When you have the option, do the right thing, and let the consequences fall where they will.



Am I wrong in thinking that blacks were allowed in because they were needed?



I haven't polled any former Marines to talk about current troop levels, but the politicians who command them are apparently sick of losing these mission-critical people.

There are apparently a disproportionate number of gay ppl in the translation sections. I don't know why we'd need translators just now though.

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 8:03:23 pm
 
  Amen

Location:
Member Since: September, 2003
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I don't care either way



I think you do care one way and it's the wrong way.



You're right, I do care that we think of all the unintended consequences before we choose a way. On another level I don't care either way because this will be decided by fiat.



Ah... sweet, sweet stasis. The position works for you with climate change, and it works with gay rights.

We've had 17 years of looking at this. We have allies all over the western world who allow openly gay people to defend their countries. What specific studies are you looking for?

Unintended consequences can just as easily be good.

We'll overturn this, and 10 years from now, everyone will wonder what the big deal was.

 
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  H.A.
 
February 4, 2010 8:05:00 pm
 
  Amen

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[ Link to this post ]
 
Where has DDF been the last couple of days? He's missed all the fun.
 
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  CheapSeats
 
February 4, 2010 8:10:51 pm
 
  Miss Stake

Location: NÖT QÜÖTTE DRÅNII PÖÜTINEN!!!!
Member Since: November, 2002
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
El Profesor said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
El Profesor said...
quote:
michael corleone said...

I'm saying that being sexually attracted to another person causes a change in behavior. In specific ways. Must I expound on this further or is it not manifestly obvious?




We already know that gays have been serving in the military since there was a military. Has it really been that big of a problem?



Not openly. That's a big difference. That behavior was muted.



So tell us how much "open attraction" you think there will be. Or do you accept the possibility that gay people could control themselves and do their jobs in the military just as well as they do in civilian jobs? I don't hear about a lot of companies going out of business because gay people can't control themselves.



I'm specifically talking about close quarters, living together, showering, etc communally. How many companies have that as part of the work place? How well would hetero guys control themselves if they showered together with women in say a fitness center? I'm not saying that all gay men can't control themselves, just as I'm sure that most hetero guys could control themselves.



this is horseshit.

if you've ever had a gym class, you've been naked around gays.

 
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  Cortez the Killer
 
February 4, 2010 8:39:22 pm
 
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Location: A palace in the sun...
Member Since: November, 2004
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quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
You should care that a large section of the population isn't able to protect the country because who they like to **** doesn't line up with who you think they should be fucking.



Yup, that's it exactly....



You should try being something other than a bigot...it's better.

 
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  Cortez the Killer
 
February 4, 2010 8:41:19 pm
 
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quote:
cheapseats said...
this is horseshit.

if you've ever had a gym class, you've been naked around gays.



He's an ignorant bigot. And he's trying to pass off military "expertise" on how this will impact the force with absolutely no authority or experience or service. Welcome to the past 8 years on this here internets.

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 8:56:42 pm
 
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Member Since: September, 2003
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
Carz said...
quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
Carz said...
I have no problems but Im more of a to each his own type. I just don't think others are. Im just in the awkward position of being politically incorrect in my opinion that we are not ready for it yet and the current system is not causing as many problems as the change will. I do hope it happens at some time in the future though.



Again, I'll draw your attention to the issue of racial integration, so you can likely ignore it once more. Blacks weren't allowed in the military because all the white soldiers were begging for them to be allowed in.

When you have the option, do the right thing, and let the consequences fall where they will.



Am I wrong in thinking that blacks were allowed in because they were needed?



Yes.

 
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 8:59:55 pm
 
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[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
michael corleone said...
I'm specifically talking about close quarters, living together, showering, etc communally.



So now we're back to behavior that has been going on for centuries. How many military victories were lost because of gays in those close quarters, tents, showers, etc.

Oh wait...now we're supposed to believe that everything will suddenly change if they gays are allowed to say they are gay.

I think I know what a military sniper feels like now when the target keeps moving around.


 
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  michael corleone
 
February 4, 2010 9:41:06 pm
 
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Location: Lake Tahoe
Member Since: September, 2003
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
H.A. said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I don't care either way



I think you do care one way and it's the wrong way.



You're right, I do care that we think of all the unintended consequences before we choose a way. On another level I don't care either way because this will be decided by fiat.



Ah... sweet, sweet stasis. The position works for you with climate change, and it works with gay rights.

We've had 17 years of looking at this. We have allies all over the western world who allow openly gay people to defend their countries. What specific studies are you looking for?

Unintended consequences can just as easily be good.

We'll overturn this, and 10 years from now, everyone will wonder what the big deal was.




Okay, fine. If other militaries have had openly gay soldiers and everything is great, then I'll buy that. I wasn't aware.

 
  [ PM michael corleone ]   __________________
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  michael corleone
 
February 4, 2010 9:43:30 pm
 
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Location: Lake Tahoe
Member Since: September, 2003
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
Cortez the Killer said...
You should care that a large section of the population isn't able to protect the country because who they like to **** doesn't line up with who you think they should be fucking.



Yup, that's it exactly....



You should try being something other than a bigot...it's better.




Ad hominem suits your intellect(sic).

 
  [ PM michael corleone ]   __________________
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  michael corleone
 
February 4, 2010 9:47:20 pm
 
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Location: Lake Tahoe
Member Since: September, 2003
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
El profesor said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I'm specifically talking about close quarters, living together, showering, etc communally.



So now we're back to behavior that has been going on for centuries. How many military victories were lost because of gays in those close quarters, tents, showers, etc.

Oh wait...now we're supposed to believe that everything will suddenly change if they gays are allowed to say they are gay.

I think I know what a military sniper feels like now when the target keeps moving around.




You don't think there is a difference between being in that situation with people who are openly gay versus those who keep it too themselves. So you disagree with me. But that isn't good enough, you have to claim I'm shifting arguments on you. Of course I'm not, it was my point from my first post - but don't let that get in your way of a good sniper/military analogy.

 
  [ PM michael corleone ]   __________________
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  El Profesor
 
February 4, 2010 9:50:46 pm
 
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Location:
Member Since: September, 2003
[ Link to this post ]
 
quote:
michael corleone said...
quote:
El profesor said...
quote:
michael corleone said...
I'm specifically talking about close quarters, living together, showering, etc communally.



So now we're back to behavior that has been going on for centuries. How many military victories were lost because of gays in those close quarters, tents, showers, etc.

Oh wait...now we're supposed to believe that everything will suddenly change if they gays are allowed to say they are gay.

I think I know what a military sniper feels like now when the target keeps moving around.




You don't think there is a difference between being in that situation with people who are openly gay versus those who keep it too themselves. So you disagree with me. But that isn't good enough, you have to claim I'm shifting arguments on you. Of course I'm not, it was my point from my first post - but don't let that get in your way of a good sniper/military analogy.



Well, you did switch from regular gay people to "openly gay" and back again. Sorry if you don't consider that a moving target. But don't worry. We've gotten used to it.

 
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